I think its fairly amazing the involvement Britain has had, as you've detailed, but also be aware that Cromwell was no saint and his conquering and slaughtering in Ireland led a great forced movement of people in the country itself as well as kickstarting masses of forced and indentured servitude to Barbados etc of native Irish. Yes they weren't slaves but lets not get too rosy-eyed when Ireland's experience of Britain is always there to reveal this dark side. Does it all come out in the wash? I don't know but the Irish experience of Britain is always there to provide some balance.
That's interesting. I never knew that. Getting over the narrative of defeat and loss of so much for so long is a tall order, so it blinds a lot of honest evaluation. After it all I've gone full circle and grant a lot of English greats such as Churchill their due. I know he's got his detractors from the Indian and Irish sides, especially where he was concerned with Michael Collins at the brokering of the Treaty in 1920, but I know if I was English I'd be a fairly staunch defender of him. That's just pride of your own people and the good they did.
I think the likes of Cornwallis could become those kinds of people that Irish could respect, especially with regard to something as heinous as the Penal Code against the Catholics—again another dark notch against our relationship. The problem is that we still have Northern Ireland and so it's not a done deal. The animosity is still there and so it brings up so much, even when that energy could be dissipated. Personally I'd rather the 2 sides in the North look to each other and stop relying on either London or Dublin, but that is asking for a major act of forgiveness and acceptance of individual agency, as opposed to tribal or historical.
Read that fairly fast, but didn't realize he was there for '98. That's the start of a different kind of Irish revolutionary, and one I'm not keen on, especially if you're not into funny handshakes... But yea he seems like some boyo. Here there and everywhere.
I wouldn't start blaggin' about him straight off the bat however in Ireland. 1798 is widely honoured in Ireland. Then again it would be a good time to talk about what he tried to do. English corruption in Ireland was always a problem, right from the Tudors on.
You should watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8NTHyucXwc&t=1400s Neil Oliver paints a great picture of the nobility of the starving Irish having just enrolled in the army to get away from The Great Hunger in the 1840s. I've yet to finish the video but the initial story he details almost left me in tears.
Who knows in ten years what's going to be the case. I think that Covid will result in major strife, even bloodshed, because we're being trolled by the upper echelon, either on purpose or willfully blindly. Regarding Ireland I hope for a whole state, but I despair when I see the Dublin govt, because they only pay lip service to anything. I don't live in Ireland atm, but would like to. Right now is a mess however, and from what I see the media has destroyed people's lives.
I'm aghast at Germany, Austria and Australia. There's obviously something in their makeup that brings this righteousness about. Obviously the English govt is waiting to roll it out too. This is only the tip of the spear I suspect.
The Irish contribution to the UK and the broader empire as well as plenty of other powers throughout time is pretty profound, but as usual its dipped in the eternal divide, pro/anti Union.
I know next to nothing about him, but obvs he's, on first glance, knee deep in the slave trade... Nobody gets away scot free with history. We're all stained with sin eh. At least wouldn't it be nice if the righteous also believed that too?
One thing that always seems to be overlooked in this equation is the sheer legislative power wielded by one specific group (wealthy protestant liberals).
If you look at the great social revolutionary pushes that took place in the 1830s, we find things like the Catholic Emancipation Act causing massive controversy, the numerous factory acts cutting hours for the working class population (though up until 1842 they were still sending six year old children to work down mines alongside pregnant women being worked until they miscarried) and similar movements directed ay emancipating the Jewish population as well. It seems to me that it is the demands of Capitalism and NOT racism that created this form of slavery. You counted for nothing unless you were a wealthy Protestant liberal.
I recently read "You Have Seen Their Faces" a photographic essay covering the plight of sharecroppers in the deep south during the 20s and 30s. White people who complained to their bosses about how they could not support their families on the little money they earned were fired from their places and black families (who could be beaten into compliance) took their place. This, in itself, created and sustained sever racial tensions among the communities there and empowered things like lynch mobs et al.
I think we all need to get together and see who/what the common enemy is here. Capitalism isnt colour blind, it screws everybody equally.
You are far from a minority sir. There is now a massive push back against the BLM wave which has now eached its tipping over point. The promotion of our proud nation as an evil Empire enslaving the whole continent of Africa is false, it is pure propoganda. Without African slave traders there wld have been no Atlantic slave ships. They could not come intp shore. The african traders rowed out their captive enslaved brothers willingly.
I think its fairly amazing the involvement Britain has had, as you've detailed, but also be aware that Cromwell was no saint and his conquering and slaughtering in Ireland led a great forced movement of people in the country itself as well as kickstarting masses of forced and indentured servitude to Barbados etc of native Irish. Yes they weren't slaves but lets not get too rosy-eyed when Ireland's experience of Britain is always there to reveal this dark side. Does it all come out in the wash? I don't know but the Irish experience of Britain is always there to provide some balance.
That's interesting. I never knew that. Getting over the narrative of defeat and loss of so much for so long is a tall order, so it blinds a lot of honest evaluation. After it all I've gone full circle and grant a lot of English greats such as Churchill their due. I know he's got his detractors from the Indian and Irish sides, especially where he was concerned with Michael Collins at the brokering of the Treaty in 1920, but I know if I was English I'd be a fairly staunch defender of him. That's just pride of your own people and the good they did.
I think the likes of Cornwallis could become those kinds of people that Irish could respect, especially with regard to something as heinous as the Penal Code against the Catholics—again another dark notch against our relationship. The problem is that we still have Northern Ireland and so it's not a done deal. The animosity is still there and so it brings up so much, even when that energy could be dissipated. Personally I'd rather the 2 sides in the North look to each other and stop relying on either London or Dublin, but that is asking for a major act of forgiveness and acceptance of individual agency, as opposed to tribal or historical.
Read that fairly fast, but didn't realize he was there for '98. That's the start of a different kind of Irish revolutionary, and one I'm not keen on, especially if you're not into funny handshakes... But yea he seems like some boyo. Here there and everywhere.
I wouldn't start blaggin' about him straight off the bat however in Ireland. 1798 is widely honoured in Ireland. Then again it would be a good time to talk about what he tried to do. English corruption in Ireland was always a problem, right from the Tudors on.
You should watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8NTHyucXwc&t=1400s Neil Oliver paints a great picture of the nobility of the starving Irish having just enrolled in the army to get away from The Great Hunger in the 1840s. I've yet to finish the video but the initial story he details almost left me in tears.
Who knows in ten years what's going to be the case. I think that Covid will result in major strife, even bloodshed, because we're being trolled by the upper echelon, either on purpose or willfully blindly. Regarding Ireland I hope for a whole state, but I despair when I see the Dublin govt, because they only pay lip service to anything. I don't live in Ireland atm, but would like to. Right now is a mess however, and from what I see the media has destroyed people's lives.
I'm aghast at Germany, Austria and Australia. There's obviously something in their makeup that brings this righteousness about. Obviously the English govt is waiting to roll it out too. This is only the tip of the spear I suspect.
The Irish contribution to the UK and the broader empire as well as plenty of other powers throughout time is pretty profound, but as usual its dipped in the eternal divide, pro/anti Union.
I know next to nothing about him, but obvs he's, on first glance, knee deep in the slave trade... Nobody gets away scot free with history. We're all stained with sin eh. At least wouldn't it be nice if the righteous also believed that too?
One thing that always seems to be overlooked in this equation is the sheer legislative power wielded by one specific group (wealthy protestant liberals).
If you look at the great social revolutionary pushes that took place in the 1830s, we find things like the Catholic Emancipation Act causing massive controversy, the numerous factory acts cutting hours for the working class population (though up until 1842 they were still sending six year old children to work down mines alongside pregnant women being worked until they miscarried) and similar movements directed ay emancipating the Jewish population as well. It seems to me that it is the demands of Capitalism and NOT racism that created this form of slavery. You counted for nothing unless you were a wealthy Protestant liberal.
I recently read "You Have Seen Their Faces" a photographic essay covering the plight of sharecroppers in the deep south during the 20s and 30s. White people who complained to their bosses about how they could not support their families on the little money they earned were fired from their places and black families (who could be beaten into compliance) took their place. This, in itself, created and sustained sever racial tensions among the communities there and empowered things like lynch mobs et al.
I think we all need to get together and see who/what the common enemy is here. Capitalism isnt colour blind, it screws everybody equally.
You are far from a minority sir. There is now a massive push back against the BLM wave which has now eached its tipping over point. The promotion of our proud nation as an evil Empire enslaving the whole continent of Africa is false, it is pure propoganda. Without African slave traders there wld have been no Atlantic slave ships. They could not come intp shore. The african traders rowed out their captive enslaved brothers willingly.